Are there really two Americas?

Published on July 16, 2004 By Madine In Democrat

John Edwards' speech about "Two Americas" was a centerpiece of his presidential campaign. While the message is not as prominent in the Kerry-Edwards ticket, Kerry has embraced it.

The crux of the Two Americas message is that one America is working hard and struggling to pay bills, and the other America is awash in money and not contributing enough to society.

Is this an accurate portrayal of America today? Intuitively, Edwards' message makes sense. Health care costs are rising. College costs are rising. Insurance costs are rising. Surely something must be wrong.

The middle class certainly is facing problems in America. But that is only one of Edwards' Americas. The problems, according to Edwards, are the result of the harmful actions or inactions of the other America, the rich. The rich are sitting by the pool and soaking up tax breaks while the working Americans are out in the cold. Is that true? Are the problems in America the result of the rich?

Perhaps the best anecdotal counter to the slothful characterization of rich America would be John Edwards. Edwards has talked about how he went from being the son of a mill worker to being an attorney who stood up for the little guy. Edwards prides himself as being a champion of ordinary people against big companies, and he proclaims that his work made society better. Now, I don't neccessarily agree with all of the positions Edwards took as a lawyer. But I do believe that Edwards worked hard. I'm sure he worked long hours and traveled a great deal during his career as an attorney. John Edwards is very wealthy today, worth tens of millions of dollars. He didn't get that money stting by a pool phoning his stock broker. He got it because he worked as an attorney.

John Edwards wants to raise capital gains and dividend taxes on the rich. I can't understand why this makes sense. Investment creates jobs. That's right, investment creates jobs. Taxes on things like cigarettes and alcohol are sometimes called "sin taxes" because they are partly designed to discourage people using those products. Why should we have a "sin tax" on investment? Surely job creation is not a sin!

So no, I don't think are two Americas. I think there is one America, and we all have to work together to solve our problems regardless of our net worth.

Two Americas speech at Iowa

Comments (Page 2)

iul89

on Jul 16, 2004

Fine, but did you grow up with poverty throughout your whole entire life?

Gideon MacLeish

on Jul 16, 2004

Fine, but did you grow up with poverty throughout your whole entire life?

So if someone works hard and gets ahead, they're suddenly a hypocrite? I don't buy that.

I have been below the poverty level most of my life...by CHOICE, as I choose to place my aspirations as a writer above the financial gains that may be found on a career path. I have met both rich and poor, and can tell you...one's pocketbook is by no means a gauge of their character.

Madine

on Jul 16, 2004

I'm not Brad Wardell

Eswiv

on Jul 16, 2004

The "Two Americas" idea here is, I think, being very misinterpreted. The idea is not that the wealthy are lazy or boorish and just don't care. The idea is that there is a growing divide in this country between the haves and have nots, that the gap between the upper and lower strata of American society is growing larger. The idea is not that one is bad and the other is good, the idea is that the gulf between them is bad, and that we must bridge it and bring the two back together by lifing the bottom up. This is an idea that I happen to agree with. No matter what your opinion of the poor is, we have to take some numbers into account. There are 35 million people in this country who are poor. 14 million of them are under the age of 18. Children are more likely than any other age group to be poor. 18.5 percent of the people living in inner cities in America subsist on less than $16,500 a year for a family of four. There are times when someone manages to pull themselves up, and I salute these people. It's an incredible feat to pull one's self up from true poverty. John Edwards got very lucky. He wasn't truly poor growing up, his dad was a manager at the mill that is so often talked about. He was lucky enough to be born in a state with excellent public Universities. The fact is, however, that the vast majority of that 35 million will never get a chance to rise above their birth. For some of them, it will be, at least in part, for lack of effort. But for many, and I believe most, the problem lies in the inescapable cyclical nature of the poverty that they are stricken by. They are stuck working minimum wage jobs that can barely provide enough to support themselves, much less their families. They cannot advance above this because to move up requires more education, a more impressive resume, which they simply cannot afford to obtain. They can't take off work to go to school, they'd lose their jobs and their only means of sustaining themselves. Many of them could quite possibly never even be admitted to a college or university even if they did have the time and money because the public schools they attended left them ill prepared for dealing with the rigors of higher education. On top of this add the fact that many of the impoverished are struggling with serious health issues because, for example, they cannot afford well balanced meals and end up eating fast food all the time, leading to diabetes, obeisity, heart problems, and so forth. It is a cycle that is terribly difficult to break out of.

Not only this, but they must combat issues such as gang activity and drug use. The number one cause of death for black males under 35 is homocide.

Maybe you should address the cause of those murders isntead of asking for the rich to pay blood money.

To address the cause of those murders, CS Guy, is to address the cause of poverty, and is exactly what Edwards is getting at. Why, we must ask, is violent crime so much more common among those in the lower income brackets? It's not that these are somehow lesser people, that they are just violent or crude by nature. It is because of the environment they have been brought up in. Why is there a booming illegal drug market in the inner city, for example? Because selling drugs puts a hell of a lot more bacon on the table than selling twinkies. That's the American spirit for you right there, entrepreneurialship.

At any rate, that is what I think Edwards is talking about when he talks about the Two Americas. He's talking about one America, where people work hard and go to work every day, and then come home and relax by the fire with their families in their nice neighborhoods. He's talking about the other America, where people work in Wal-Mart or Wendy's and go from paycheck to paycheck, hoping they can get in enough hours to pay the rent. He's not saying that either is the morally superior or that one is somehow better than the other, that one is the product of laziness and sloth and the other is ever hard working and struggling to stand up despite the efforts of "the man." He is simply saying what I think is an utterly American idea --- Let two Americas become one. Let us give those who live at the bottom the lift they need to join us at the top. Let us ease the worry of paying the rent or the bills before the second notice comes in. Let us come together as one America, for that is what we all deserve, and have spend the past two centuries toiling for.

on Jul 17, 2004

Well my mistake. But Bill Gates still started from pretty much nothing.

kingbee

on Jul 17, 2004

Donald Trump wasn't rich

who's been tellin you lies about the donald? his father was a wealthy contractor

CS Guy

on Jul 18, 2004

LW kills yet another thread?
gah, i hate when that happens

Maybe there is just nothing else to say after you have contributed.

thatoneguyinslc

on Jul 29, 2004

Actually there used to be THREE americas, but the rich have pretty much decimated a big chunk of the middle class. So how about 2.3 americas?

Brian
AKA:thatoneguyinslc

Draginol

on Jul 29, 2004

Rich people aren't more hard working, they're just lucky that they're parents are rich. Look at GWB, he got a free ride to Governor off his father, which, alongside his brother and Catherine Harris, brought him to President. While kids in the ghetto have no chance going in. Do you know 1 in 20 black males die from murder? Thats pretty pathetic. And the millionares can't spare a dime.

Rich people are lucky? Explain my luck then. I grew up poor. My parents are barely middle class today and both single (i.e. divorced). But I'm now one of "the rich". I've averaged working around 60 hours per week for the past decade.

Who the hell are you to tell me how much I should earn? What have YOU contributed? I pay six figures in taxes each year. That's not enough? Every dime taken away from me is a dime taken away from hiring more people and contributing to the economy in other, far more efficient ways, than the government can.

You need to get a clue.

Draginol

on Jul 29, 2004

Jul89:

Read MY working history: http://draginol.joeuser.com/articlecomments.asp?AID=20053&s=1

I made my first bits of money taking out the trash for welfare mothers.

The only reason why you are able to post your ilinformed rantings is because I busted my ass to make something of myself.

My mom could have gotten welfare if she'd wanted to. She actually made LESS working full time than she would have received via welfare. But she had honor and was willing to sacrifice some to live an honest life. And I learned a lot from her about the meaning of hard work, sacrifice, and careful planning.

Jay Walker

on Jul 29, 2004

My mom could have gotten welfare if she'd wanted to. She actually made LESS working full time than she would have received via welfare.

But you said on a different thread that hard work alone was enough to pull people out of poverty. Say it isn't so Joe DeMaggio ... perhaps the problem of poverty is deeper than just hard work? See my rantings over here Link for a little deeper insight into a major component of the whole poverty issue.

BTW that's not to say people shouldn't work just cause welfare gets them more. I applaud and agree with your mom's approach, insofar as you've talked about it.

But your "escape from poverty" had a lot to do with seeing a fine example working hard every day, and having above average intelligence (inferred by your college degree, particularly in your chosen field). Most poor children don't have the benefit of both of those attributes ...

JW

Draginol

on Jul 29, 2004

Yes, and hard work DID get her out of poverty.

The poverty issue is related to work. Very few people who work full time are in poverty. That is a statistical fact.

Working full time is working full time. That means 40 hours a week whether that's landscaping, ditch digging, or working at McDonalds. If you work full time, you won't be in poverty. It gets more complicated if you have dependents. My mom only had 1 dependent and she didn't have additional children that she couldn't afford.

I don't know how many actual poor people you've met but I've NEVER met a single poor person that worked full time or didn't have multiple dependents. I have little sympathy for an able bodied man or woman who cranks out children he or she can't afford. Nor do I have sympathy for the able bodied man or woman who simply doesn't work full time but cries poverty.

What makes the United States special is that your efforts can lift you as high as your talent can take you. There's nothing holding an able bodied person down but their own stupidity or laziness.

thatoneguyinslc

on Jul 29, 2004

Have you ever worked for minimum wage in a large city and tried to pay rent, utilities, food, insurance, and all of the enormous costs that it takes to raise kids? I have and it sucks! But it didnt stop me from bettering myself, getting an education and upgrading my life. It is true that some people milk the system for everything that they can get. But its also true thatsome of the rich use every goddamn loophole, tax shelter, offshore cayman bank account, and any other little trick they can pull to keep from paying their fair share. This is why the flat tax is a good idea. No matter what you earn, YOUR TAX BURDEN IS THE SAME PERCENTAGE AS THE GUY NEXT TO YOU.

Lets face it folks, there will always be the haves and have nots in this country of ours. Thats just the way life is. Some people are born into it, some earn it, some steal it, and some never have an opportunity to make it. I feel that in some ways we are obligated to take care of our fellow man, with limitations of course. Thats why the welfare system in this country is so messed up. People will always find ways to scam ya if they can, and some who desperately need the help cannot get it because of the forementioned group. There has got to be some way to even it out and truly have ONE AMERICA.

But i dont think Bush 2.0 and his buddies are knocking themselves out to find a solution.

CS Guy

on Jul 29, 2004

Have you ever worked for minimum wage in a large city and tried to pay rent, utilities, food, insurance, and all of the enormous costs that it takes to raise kids?

So don't live in a large city. Or don't have kids that you can't afford.

But its also true thatsome of the rich use every goddamn loophole, tax shelter, offshore cayman bank account, and any other little trick they can pull to keep from paying their fair share.

Really? Got any proof that any significant number of people do this? The fact is that the rich pay the vast majority of taxes in this country. And they pay significantly higher percentages than the poor. Saying that the rich do not pay their fair share is rediculous.

Lets face it folks, there will always be the haves and have nots in this country of ours.

There has got to be some way to even it out and truly have ONE AMERICA.

Which is it? Will we always have two americans, or is there a way to have one?

Jay Walker

on Jul 29, 2004

Brad,

When you say "able-bodied" does that mean, that if the body is OK, but the mind is mushy ... what are your thoughts then? I've discussed some of these problems that the poor face, over here .... Link ... essentially, many poor suffer from learning disabilities and sometimes mental illness. What's your world-view of that? Sympathy? No sympathy?

JW

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